Curse

Omega X · Aug 12, 2007, 07:52 PM // 19:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by Faer

The hard-core PvE players need grind to keep them attached to the game. ArenaNet wants to keep those players attached to the game so that they tell other people about the game, so that those other people will buy it (once the payment is done, those people don't matter except for the potential they hold to bring in more people, but that's another story). So, ArenaNet adds grind titles. Later, as the hard-core PvE players still want more grind, ArenaNet adds more reason to grind for titles, making grinding essentially necessary to play the game as a social one; without grinding for those 1337 PvE skills, you'll be passed up in groups for people who have them, and if you are one of those people who just can't beat the game with the AI teams then this becomes quite a problem for you.

Grind has never been technically essential to playing this game, but these days, with the title system granting players benefits in both PvE and PvP (though more subtle in PvP, and not in the same form as in PvE), the game truly has become Grind Wars rather than Guild Wars.

That explains why a lot more people I know that has left already. ITs also the reason why Korean MMOs are not very popular in the west.

Gebo · Aug 12, 2007, 07:55 PM // 19:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by Deleet

I have the opposite opinom, I seek guilds which are better than me, so I can learn. Most of my, now ex, guildmates were 2-3 or more ranks above me. One should not forgot, that players with high ranks, usually (not always) are better players than those without. Experience is key.

ehhh theres so many cheap ways to beat HA that rank means nothing.... either play a FOTM build or protest to get everyone else nerfed and gg, lots of fame.
the only real decent pvp from my experience is friendly scrimmage, because you can ensure that its just a fun fair fight and no one will be exploiting to win, since there is no reward involved, and theres actually a slim chance you might get good sportsmanship at the end of the battle... in other pvp you get called a noob for losing and still called a noob for winning. huzzah!

natuxatu · Aug 12, 2007, 08:19 PM // 20:19

Yeah actually the only issue I have is titles that affect me in battle... the lockpick one and the wisdom one.. those are more "craft" type of things... but the lightbringer, sunspear, and the needing to be friends of luxon/kurzick to get a specific skill I'm not a fan of titles like that... but sure you don't need to do them but imo there is more pressure to get those.

But I think this is the "live skills" they were talking about.. but perhaps they should add a new window and not call them titles.. just so it doesn't seem so daunting. (Referring to the increase in the lockpicking and those kinds of things.)

MithranArkanere · Aug 12, 2007, 09:05 PM // 21:05

My only real concern about tiles is that they treat players that focus in one character, rather than those with more character slots, that actually support more the game...

They could give bonuses for having 10 characters. Like... for example...:
"If one character max out Lightbringer, when the other characters hit lightbringer 9, they get 1k extra Lightbringer points per each current character existing that has that title maxed out."

Just a way to 'reduce grind the more characters grind'.

Bryant Again · Aug 12, 2007, 09:28 PM // 21:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by MithranArkanere

My only real concern about tiles is that they treat players that focus in one character, rather than those with more character slots, that actually support more the game...

Agree with this 250%

wetsparks · Aug 12, 2007, 10:15 PM // 22:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by Faer

without grinding for those 1337 PvE skills, you'll be passed up in groups for people who have them, and if you are one of those people who just can't beat the game with the AI teams then this becomes quite a problem for you.

Please tell me you didn't mean that. The skills are good yes, but not so good that you HAVE to have them, ANET wanted to make sure of that. That is why people were complaining about the skills being nerfed after they were introduced because some were so strong only an idiot wouldn't use them.

Solas · Aug 12, 2007, 10:44 PM // 22:44

titles are optional, that simple.

you cna complete nf without an lb rank.

ss is the only one that you actually need,only if you start a campaign in nf

wisdom and chest running makes sense that you get a bonus, in crease it slightly anyway.

and for pvp.

you dont need a title for them, only the elitest ones with and for exp. players so title is jsut proof of your experience, after all if you havent one many matches then it doesnt say much for exp.

MithranArkanere · Aug 12, 2007, 11:02 PM // 23:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by Talach_Ninneed

titles are optional, that simple.

you cna complete nf without an lb rank.

ss is the only one that you actually need,only if you start a campaign in nf

wisdom and chest running makes sense that you get a bonus, in crease it slightly anyway.

and for pvp.

you dont need a title for them, only the elitest ones with and for exp. players so title is jsut proof of your experience, after all if you havent one many matches then it doesnt say much for exp.

Sunspear is NOT optional for Elonian characters

At least up to rank 7.

Voltar · Aug 12, 2007, 11:03 PM // 23:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by MithranArkanere

The most 'necessary' titles are quite fast to get: Sunspear and Lightbringer..

Attempt to group in HA without rank. Rank is the most 'necessary' title.

Playing the game at all is optional. This isn't a matter of civil rights or anything critical to our lives. It's a matter of preserving one of the qualities of the game that draws me to it. I've said before that I don't mind the faction requirement to get skills, it's just (for instance the SS and LB titles) when I find myself doing something repetitive that I wouldn't do otherwise (that sounds like a reasonable definition of grinding) that I find gameplay too unpleasant. Yeah, they're optional just like playing the whole game is optional and posting my opinions on a fansite is optional. My gameplay style is to play the whole game at least once. I've played through almost all of the quests though I hate about 99% of the quests in this game. I've played all PvP Arenas (except HvH) at least a few times to get the feel for the whole game even though the guild I GvG'd in sucked and lost every match. Now I feel comfortable that I'm at least remotely knowledgeable about all aspects of the game...some a whole lot more than others.

Anyone who's recovering from playing WoW (I've been WoW-free for just over a year now...It's easier now but I still take it one day at a time) will recognise this title crap as the Blizzard, 'carrot on a stick,' model of account retention. We have a chance to keep GW2 from becoming a WoW emulator and we need to work together to keep that, "You've almost maxed your character out, almost..almost...NEW INSTANCE! Your gear is relative crap now! Try again and pay us more! Oh wait! EXPANSION! Duped again sucker! $15 please, ty...come again." from ruining he game. Believe me, WoW does a way better job of being WoW than Anet is capable of doing. Leave artificial demand to the masters and provide a fun game for the rest of us.

Hellgate: London is set to release on october 31! Anyone else on board for that?

jrk247 · Aug 12, 2007, 11:09 PM // 23:09

Most titles are not needed and are just there to show off. The only title that is needed is the sunspear one and even then you just have to do the quests and you'll be high enough of a level to move on in the story. People that say they don't like grind and yet want every title out there need to stop playing the game. Titles are optional and only a few actually help you out (wisdom, lucky, treasure, gladiator) so don't complain that it's a grind because you don't even need titles to play the game, as for the SS title you can play the game normally and get over the required amount of points to move on in the story. And titles are what keeps the majority of players active until a new game is released.

darktyco · Aug 13, 2007, 03:23 AM // 03:23

Titles are teh lame. This trend is the reason why I'm not immediately buying EotN. I taking a "wait and see" approach :P

Cherrie · Aug 13, 2007, 08:17 AM // 08:17

I'd like to make myself clear - I am not against titles!
They are the thing left to do once you've beaten the campaigns with all your characters etc. I was going for titles before any kind of benefit was tied to them simply because I only like playing one of my characters and there wouldn't be much left to do otherwise.

What I am against is, tying those benefits - any benefits and at any rate - to grind title tracks!
Some of you say that the bonus given from Lucky/Treasure/Wisdom is very small. Its not true, those titles combined make a huge difference, especially to those who don't have gold neccesary to max them out anyway! In short, rich gain more benefits from this than those poor.

So... add titles, there aparently ain't much other content to hold players (sarcasm? or not?)... Just don't make it beneficial as its against your Skill>Time policy!
As for skills tied to those tracks... I'll repeat my proposition: make their effectiveness scale faster, but stop rising faster as well, here's a complete suggestion I proposed, please take a look: http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/s...php?t=10184601.

kobey · Aug 13, 2007, 08:42 AM // 08:42

Kinda agree that titles are not required in any way for the casual gamer to enjoy the game.
Eg. you don't need a single point in lb to be able to complete NF.

Title to me is something one can work towards after you finished whatever you want to do in the game. My only complain is, after all the hard work, what you get is just a title which you can display.
Probably the reason why after getting my guardian title, I decided to take a long break from Guild Wars.

Think new contents ie. story, campaigns is what we want rite? Not fighting the same enemies that are smarter, faster, harder

jrk247 · Aug 13, 2007, 09:44 AM // 09:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cherrie

I'd like to make myself clear - I am not against titles!
They are the thing left to do once you've beaten the campaigns with all your characters etc. I was going for titles before any kind of benefit was tied to them simply because I only like playing one of my characters and there wouldn't be much left to do otherwise.

What I am against is, tying those benefits - any benefits and at any rate - to grind title tracks!
Some of you say that the bonus given from Lucky/Treasure/Wisdom is very small. Its not true, those titles combined make a huge difference, especially to those who don't have gold neccesary to max them out anyway! In short, rich gain more benefits from this than those poor.

So... add titles, there aparently ain't much other content to hold players (sarcasm? or not?)... Just don't make it beneficial as its against your Skill>Time policy!
As for skills tied to those tracks... I'll repeat my proposition: make their effectiveness scale faster, but stop rising faster as well, here's a complete suggestion I proposed, please take a look: http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/s...php?t=10184601.

How long have you been playing? There used to be no bonuses what so ever with any title, so I think adding the extra % to keep an item is fine, it used to be the item broke everytime you salvaged from it so please don't say how it's unfair that some people have a higher % of a salvage not breaking. There was a year+ where every salvaged item broke so yeah I don't see a problem with the way it is now. Oh and lockpicks, those haven't been around that long if you don't like it just go around using specific keys that break everytime like in the old days. Titles are optional there is no need to have them you don't even need rank to HA just do it with a guild/alliance group. You can go through the game without grinding for a title just fine. The SS title track isn't even a grind unless you go beyond the required amount of points. The idea of titles being an unnecessary grind to get anywhere in the game is a bit exaggerated tbh.

MirkoTeran · Aug 13, 2007, 12:45 PM // 12:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by MithranArkanere

My only real concern about tiles is that they treat players that focus in one character, rather than those with more character slots, that actually support more the game...

I play 1 character only for 26 months now. Please explain to me how people with more chars support game more?

Arcane_Penguin · Aug 13, 2007, 12:48 PM // 12:48

1 Character = Focus on titles, money, etc. more characters, less money to go round, only account based titles really worth the effort with so many characters, etc.

william1975 · Aug 13, 2007, 01:08 PM // 13:08

I'm biased i enjoy gaining new levels of titles and its my main aim to gain more, however there are a few that are now more necessary to increase your playability, certainly in PvE.

I don't know of any title that actually affects your abilty to play in PvP, well unless you count Hero as one since that affects your ability to get into a team to play in HA.

Certainly to my mind the Kurzick/Luxon faction linked skills make playing in PvE far easier, with rank 5 in Kurzick a number of skills make my ability to work in HM far easier now than before they arrived. And it is a lot harder to grind them than some of the other title linked skills. Again the Sunspear linked skills are very usefull in PvE and though it is far easier to gain the max title here than for the Faction skills it needs to be done on each of your characters, so again it is more labourous, only my main character has maxed this, the others are all below 15,000, most no where near 6,000 yet.

I think its disengenous to say that the Wisdom and Treasure hunter titles have little effect on the skills of lockpicking and salvaging. My main charcter on level 3 wisdom and 2 treasure hunter has a 38% chance of destroying salvaged items rather than a 50% chance like my others. and lockpicking with her is far more reliable than with my others. those wee percentage changes from gaining levels in these as well as the lucky title track do affect the playabilty of a character.

When i started palying this i didnt have any titles to grind, now i have loads, and while i enjoy it i do agree that guild wars is now a grinding title game.

however i like that

MithranArkanere · Aug 13, 2007, 02:23 PM // 14:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by MirkoTeran

I play 1 character only for 26 months now. Please explain to me how people with more chars support game more?

By purchasing more character slots.

If you play 10 characters, you HAVE to purchase at least one slot.

If you want all 26 possible slots (10 PvE, 10PvP and 6 pre-Searing, for example) you have to pay for at least 17 slots.

You suppor more the game if you pay more.

haggus71 · Aug 13, 2007, 03:24 PM // 15:24

I agree that the titles were a necessity, because of the static nature of the game. For a lot of people, once they finished the three storylines(which is pretty damn easy once you finish it once), they were twiddling their thumbs looking for something else to do. For a PVPer you are always challenged by other players with good skills, and your interest is kept there. Most people, however, are PVE, so they needed the titles to keep their interest.

It's the game itself. The way it was designed, they figured, "Well, we create a good storyline for those who like that aspect, and we have the arenas for PVE." When they noticed less people in PVP, they created Factions to offer beginners arenas(Fort Aspenwood, Jade Quarry) to try and get more people into the PVP fold.

Now they've thrown their hands up with Nightfall and gave more toward the PVE crowd. The problem is, without a persistent world setup, a chapter can last only so long. So now they have titles and GWEN, which will keep MOST people in the game for maybe 6 months or so. That's time enough for the alpha and beta of GW2 to start leaking out.

For a lot of us, though, this title-based crap is seen for the band-aid approach that it is, and with new games coming, or already here, based on storylines that were written by much better authors(JRR Tolkein:LOTRO, Robert E. Howard:Age of Conan) and more unique worlds(Hellgate:London), I think GW2 will be too little, too late.

Title grind was the only thing they could do to keep interest up with a static platform, since all their resources are going toward GW2.

So yeah, Hellgate:London, anyone?

haggus71 · Aug 13, 2007, 03:24 PM // 15:24

I agree that the titles were a necessity, because of the static nature of the game. For a lot of people, once they finished the three storylines(which is pretty damn easy once you finish it once), they were twiddling their thumbs looking for something else to do. For a PVPer you are always challenged by other players with good skills, and your interest is kept there. Most people, however, are PVE, so they needed the titles to keep their interest.

It's the game itself. The way it was designed, they figured, "Well, we create a good storyline for those who like that aspect, and we have the arenas for PVE." When they noticed less people in PVP, they created Factions to offer beginners arenas(Fort Aspenwood, Jade Quarry) to try and get more people into the PVP fold.

Now they've thrown their hands up with Nightfall and gave more toward the PVE crowd. The problem is, without a persistent world setup, a chapter can last only so long. So now they have titles and GWEN, which will keep MOST people in the game for maybe 6 months or so. That's time enough for the alpha and beta of GW2 to start leaking out.

For a lot of us, though, this title-based crap is seen for the band-aid approach that it is, and with new games coming, or already here, based on storylines that were written by much better authors(JRR Tolkein:LOTRO, Robert E. Howard:Age of Conan) and more unique worlds(Hellgate:London), I think GW2 will be too little, too late.

Title grind was the only thing they could do to keep interest up with a static platform, since all their resources are going toward GW2.

So yeah, Hellgate:London, anyone?